We’ve got a lot of sources out there. For the past five years, we’ve dominated coverage of all the carriers. Sprint was the first.
So when Sprint decided to finally ship a somewhat open, Linux-driven, modern Palm phone… it wasn’t a question of who was going to review it first.
And now, for the first (full) review of the (final) Palm Pre.
Palm hasn’t been known for Sprint integration. Most of Sprint’s Palm phones come somewhat desolate of Sprint service integration. This is a major reason why Sprint gets a bad reputation in the wireless industry. Tech-savvy people grab a Treo, turn it on, and don’t find Sprint Navigation. They don’t find Sprint TV. They don’t find a Music Store. And while niche devices like the Treo 800w and Pro finally checked the boxes… the implementation fell silent. Everyone was already waiting for the Pre.
Thankfully, the Pre does Sprint integration right. Sprint TV excels on the Palm Pre. It’s not clear if the Pre is using a newer, higher-resolution H.264 connection… or if Palm’s playback software has hardware acceleration. But, it’s great. And, unlike SlingPlayer… doesn’t “harm the AT&T Sprint network.” Unlike AT&T, Sprint doesn’t violate FCC rulings and limit what you can do with your device.
And that shows with the Pre. Sprint Navigation is just the beginning… the app portfolio service on the Pre appears more extensible than iPhone. However, Palm didn’t let too much slip out about it; all apps have been removed from the store. Palm says they’ll add the service back on launch day, so we can’t put their app store to the test… yet.
Probably the worst feature that we had experience with, was USB mode. Copying to the device was slow… slower than ActiveSync was over USB 2.0. It almost reminded us of iPhone OS 2.0, before Apple updated the sync process to, well, work.
Amazon MP3 does work already… and it’s a welcomed relief from the Sprint Outsourced Music Store. Palm put their foot down, and it paid off here. Having a music store on-par with the iPhone is key for a device like Pre… and while iPhone’s iPod software makes iPhone better for controlling music… we were happy with the shopping experience.
And yes, music does play in the background.
Surprisingly, nobody on the team was happy with YouTube. While Sprint TV was a treat, YouTube was limited to searching. It’s not clear if this is going to be quickly updated, but the player software is minimalistic at best.
Facebook integration also appears to suffer from first-instance issues. The application supports a minimal set of the Facebook API, limiting users to a 2007-style interface, with only profile and contact information. Chat is nowhere to be found.
Other Sprint apps, such as Nascar Mobile, were also surprises… in that they weren’t terrible. Usually these outsourced apps run slowly and don’t update properly. Not so on the Pre.
Messaging is a delicate subject for many. The Pre not only has a capacitive display (which yes, is very much capacitive… unlike the Touch Pro, it loves a human’s touch)… but it also has a keyboard. Typing on the Pre, like any smartphone, is sure to be the subject of many arguments. Some will say that iPhone’s multi-touch approach is better… others will say the Pre is better.
We really love how the debate puts Apple’s Steve Jobs, and (formerly) Apple’s John Rubenstein at odds. When asked if Apple thought about adding a physical keyboard to iPhone, Jobs dismissed the idea flatly, citing the team’s unified decision to move ahead with multi-touch. The first device with Rubenstein (the “father of the iPod and iPhone”) as chairman of Palm… has a physical keyboard. It cauterizes rumors that he stood out as the most major opposition to the lack of a physical keyboard on iPhone.
Still, we aren’t alone in thinking it takes some acquiring to get acquainted to typing and messaging on the Pre. Every early user we’ve talked to agreed that the interface requires jumping through menus in an odd manner… especially when toggling between windows and apps.
Lingering Questions for Palm
We’re still left with some questions. With the webOS SDK still not fully unveiled… we’re left asking Palm what they’ll let people do with the device.
iPhone limits software to what they can do with background apps.
Android limits software to not run Linux software directly.
BlackBerry limits software all over the place.
Palm Pre? Well, we don’t know what limits will be there.
Obviously, for webOS software, a lot of apps are breaking the rules internally. A lot of these apps are Linux-coded from the bottom to the top. Will Palm let other developers have the same level of access? We think it’s going to be a deal-breaker if they don’t. As Apple learned with iPhone, limiting all the toys to their own software, leaves everyone else taking their toys elsewhere.
Lingering Questions for Sprint
Unfortunately, we’re pointing the most anger here at Sprint.
Once again, Sprint proclaims that another device requires Everything Plans. That is misinformation, plain and simple. The Palm Pre, like the Samsung Instinct, could run on any modern Sprint plan. Sprint simply would need to require the presence of a Power Vision Pack, in order to activate the device.
Even the hard of hearing, and data-only customers, are simply told to chose another phone. It makes us sick… and here’s why.
Instead, Sprint is requiring people to buy a top-revenue Everything Plan. Our memo to Sprint: It may just kill Palm, thanks.
Why might it kill Palm? Tech-savvy people like their old plans. They hate when people try to kick them off… and they’ll respond by going elsewhere.
With most of the tech savvy people refusing to get the Pre, on Everything Plan hostage terms, there won’t be many people rallying the success of the Pre.
Now, you might respond that while Sprint is in the wrong for deceiving people, that the Palm Eos will be coming to AT&T. We’re just left wondering if the Pre will fail because of these hostage-terms plan requirements, and if anyone will buy a Pre in the interim? Will Palm live long enough to ship the Eos?
Sprint, wise up and drop this ridiculous plan requirement. The Pre is an excellent device, but isn’t worth higher per-month pricing. Those customers can, and will, get a Wi-Fi enabled Windows phone, and sling Wi-Fi to the iPod touch. Such a shame too, because the Pre is Sprint’s converged solution. Only those on Everything plans will be able to use it.
Closing Thoughts
Barring any last-minute snags, which seem unlikely at this point, we’ve reviewed the final version of the Pre. There is the potential, as previously reported, that Sprint could pull their escrow of the firmware if they find anything show-stopping. We doubt that will happen at this point, and expect the device to be sold in early June.
Minor Update: Hours after posting this review, Sprint confirmed the June 6th launch date for the Pre.
We are holding off on casting judgment on a few areas, which we outlined previously. Palm’s App Catalog is not open yet, and we won’t touch the sync servers for calendars and contacts until they go live. MechaWorks is intimately familiar with cloud computing, and we understand that it is in an active state of development still. We aren’t even using those apps yet, so we don’t get any first impressions from servers that aren’t final.
The Pre is a beautiful device. We love it, we love to hold it, we love to use it. Sprint, please don’t kill the golden goose (for Sprint, or for Palm). Let everyone with an unlimited data plan use the Pre… it’s better, but not enough to fork over an additional $20 to $40 per month. For an extra $960 (over the course of two years), we’d rather have an iPod touch, plus a couple of netbooks (sipping Wi-Fi from any old Windows phone).
any word on if and when this hit other providers (ie verizon)???
Danny,
It hits all the other Cell companies in 6 Months!
god damn screw sprint….. i wont be able to get this phone because they are so god damn greedy about their everything plan. Are they even thinking about the econmony right now and how bad it is. I couldn’t get the instinct because of their stupid requirement for their everything plan. i hope sprint loses so much money that they go broke this year and my dad (who pays the bills) will have to be forced to move to another phone company). SCREW YOU SPRINT YOU ARE MAKING A BAD MOVE
JJ i did my damn research….i could say more about my business position towards the phone but id rather not even go there…..i know what it means….believe me i am one of the ones getting the SDK that palm is making for the phone….im simply saying stop crying like a baby and either get the damn phone or not…..dont go crying about the price plan….im pretty sure sprint pitched it to palm of how they are going to handle this phone….and if palm didnt want to have it that way…..believe me…someone would of said something….tech3 makes some valid points to the defense….so just go read up on that…..
@flower_power im talking 10 year old free and clear plan….oh yeah 40 bucks….with retention free web and text haha
Chris, I guess I just don’t get it. Buy it and then try it? Thats your answer? I guess I should not rely on this site to give “full” reviews. I’m sure everyone wonders about the same questions I asked. How hard would it have been to give info on MMS and if it tehthers or not? More importantly movie and music playback. Those things should be a given. Why would I want to buy and try right off the bat? That makes no sense at all. I guess I will go to another site that actually reviews the phone in FULL. I’m not dumb enough to go out and buy something without knowing all the in’s and out’s. I can’t believe this site encourages people to do this.
“Don’t shoot the messanger” !
“Freedom of Speech for the Sprint Customer’s”
To an observer, It becomes obvious that there is 2 types of Pro Sprint comments on here:
1.Recent converts to Sprint, who find it less expensive compared to their old Carrier plans.We understand where you are coming from, give it some time,and you will also understand us!
2.Some Sprint employees, who are somewhat understandably defensive and bias, are acting as agents, in support of the failing Corporate policies.
This is to the second group:
This website is one of a handful of sites,providing a forum for the actual customer’s of Sprint to freely express themselves!
Attempts to silence our voices, in however tasteless fashion, only makes you appear more desperate, the fact is that without us the paying customer’s, it will not be long before you will be out of a job.
Acknowledge the fact that we provide a invaluable chance for Sprint to listen, to learn first hand constructive feedback and for Sprint maybe to adjust accordingly, should it opt to do so!
Otherwise, shooting the messanger, before we join the ranks of the now silent former tens of millions of Sprint customer’s who have left the company over the past decade, will surely not help Sprint!
Thank You!
Did you actually have the Pre in your possession and physically use it for your review?
I ask because there was really nothing in the review that was not already discussed by Palm. Did you test data speeds? Call quality? BlueTooth connections? Speaker phone? Multi-tasking ability? How well did it hold a signal? What was the battery life like?
Own up to it…either you did not really test the Pre hands on or you totally blew a great chance to set yourselves apart.
Me, Thats what I thought too. I bet they did not have their hands on it. How else do you explain the poor review that tells us NOTHING!!!!!
It appears many want to set up scenarios where we’re damned if we do, and damned if we don’t.
Qualitative things like call quality, and data speed, require nationwide use. There’s no way we can test every Sprint network cell site configuration… there are many different CDMA hardware vendors. Same with iPhone on AT&T… which is why we treated the original iPhone with a similarly-styled review. This is the third or fourth time I have had to repeat that.
Read the comments people… we’ve addressed this quite a few times. This is the last.
If we pass judgement now on things like voice and data signal/quality, those same people would be back next week to say how wrong we were (even if we were pretty much right). We’re not stupid, and we’re not going to play that game… for all the reasons we’ve already stated.
Further baseless comments that somehow doubt we reviewed the Pre will be removed. Read the review, read our follow-up comments… it’s clear we reviewed the final Pre.
Continuing with such junk discussions simply is not productive, and a waste of both our time, and other reader’s time.
what about battery time chris? Does that require nationwide use??
How is it a junk discussion Chris? How is telling us what the MMS and SMS is like a junk discussion? How is telling is about movie and music play back a junk discussion? These are things everyone wants to know. How can you not see that? The movie and music playback is something everyone and I mean everyone enjoys. Some might not like to watch full movies ok I get that,but some do. Why not throw us a bone? You can delete this if you want,but come on man I’m not the only one intrested in these things. I found your site through a google search and I thought great a site dedicated to phone news and reviews. Was I wrong? I’m not trying to bust your balls man. I appreciate the fact you have a great site. I was just shocked when you didn’t mention some of the things about this phone that make it special. MMS,movie and music play back should be a given and not opent to interpretation. How hard is that?
Messaging – We touched on SMS… MMS backend servers were not assured to be online, so we didn’t want to cast judgement on it yet.
Movies & Music – Sorry, answered in a previous comment. This is taking a lot of time with little benefit (to those that actually read the comments).
Battery Life – Mike, it does. It requires multiple charge cycles and network utilization. Same with iPhone until significant firmware revisions (and GSM doesn’t have breathing effect issues with power). Even drive-by sites like Engadget will tell you that.
I read through all comments and I saw nothing on movies and music? So do they have to be MP4’S for movies? Can I just use it in AVI format? What about ring tones? MP3 or not?
I called Sprint yesterday to see if my Free & Clear Family Plan that currently has all the minutes and data that I need can be used with the Palm Pre and was told it would not. I can understand Sprint wanting to upgrade me to a new more expensive plan and even though I would really like to get the PRE it is just not worth the additional monthly cost. I was planning on extending early to get the PRE but will probably just wait now to see if I can work a deal with Sprint upon expiration of my contract in November. I lost my excitement over the PRE!!!!
I have SERO with extras/discounts & Treo 755P, I love WebOS and want to make it better, a happy place like in the ATT/APPLE corner. Productivity is abundant, life is quick, easy and entertaining…no crash & things just, WORK! (Shock) Everything I say below means NOTHING unless Palm’s Pre is exactly as they advrtise, & as I expect it to be. I, like others have reservations about the battery life, app store & general success of this new platform. A simple mistake like a inadiquit battery could ruin the ENTIRE experience and make it essentially worthless. It can NOT be any less than an iphone (but multitasking, so improvement!).
No one understands the problem caused when taking Istincts route and tying specific plans to the Pre. I have SERO but I will eventually give it up (if not right away), I might negotiate NEW discounts on the necessary plan. Whatever happens, I will break down eventually – but it’s not ME, Sprint and everybody else (all Pre lovers) need to worry about. I live in NYC and make a decent living freelancing (running around with my laptop from person to person, office to office – I basically get paid shit in a lot of places 8). I need this AND I have money to buy it & pay a little more for a plan. I would also pay for & upgrade to Sprint TV and GPS, though I doubt I will use that often.
I’m very familiar with people who’s lives revolve around computers/cells, these are the people with SERO like accounts. Those that do research and just FIND information & those that always buy in bulk (only 15% of college students are expected to get JOBS when they graduate this year, supposedly the biggest # of graduates in HISTORY). These are students and low income programers and enthusiasts,, single parents – those just out of school will not spring for the “Pre” or the plan price that is forced. Essentially suffocating the Pre itself & the OS, shunning old accounts, those who will DEVELOPE the Apps for the WebOS. These are usually young adults who have smaller budgets and take the time to do things “on their own” (like tinker on their comps). If we don’t have hundreds of HS/College (SERO, fair and flexible,etc) students running around thrilled with their Pres, who will create these programs/apps to grasp interest EVERYWHERE, so the WebOS world can be MORE beautiful & 3Dimentional for US all?
This even further complicates the problem, and could backfire for Sprint – I honestly hope not. If Sprint does not allow to use grandfathered plans, a HUGE chunk of customers will not adapt right away – some inevitably are the developers that will make WebOS tick. Now a few months, Apps are showing up very slowly & those with the phone become restless and angered. People are furious with Sprint, now 6 months & a new WebOS phone comes out on Verizon – Sprint loses another 5 million customers. Basically the entire OS fails and becomes 1/4 of what it could have been, perhaps rescued when it comes to other carriers & renewed vigor is seen – though never the same.
You know why I have SERO? I’m 26, grew up in NYC and have had a cell for a long time (no one in family had it before, I was 14). I learned quickly how Mobile companies worked, charges would magically show up – “I didn’t sign up for this”. Tricks galore, after many bills for months- hundreds of dollars each. I’m with Sprint but this was an experience on a different carrier, however Sprint is no angel either. As a resourceful teenager, I took to the internet to see the countries view & if I can find something better. I stumbled onto SERO and is HOW I became a customer (I’d prolly be with an iPhone otherwise, heh). ALL carriers suck, I don’t understnad why the Mobile industry here is so viscious/dishonest? The bills NEVER made sense, they have and continue to get away with a lot of things…though I’m thankful Sprint cut it out.
I NEVER post but I feel pretty strong about the Pre and more importantly, about WebOS. I read, a lot – especially things that interest me (technology). Most of my close friends are Mac users/iPhone, while I generally work with PCs. Between my group of friends and many here online, I’ve noticed many who complain about ATT’s service – though not EVERYONE is effected. One must understand that the ATT exodus over the iPhone is stressing their network – they’re bursting & are not equiped to handle such volume in certain areas (especially if your precious iPhone is hot commodity where you live). I can vouch Sprint has a wonderful network, as they have PLENTY of room now, sorry bad joke! heh. I’ve been with them for over 8 years and they USED to be terrible, only in the customer service department (I was always pleased with network). I’m very impressed in the last year as I believe I’ve never had to call about a major issue, now they actually call you back to follow up too!
CONCLUSION:
I see things are getting out of hand but lets summarize. SERO was not a simple task to achieve, I and others have spent DAYS on the phone, negotiating and argueing about customer service problems (in total, I kid you not). Many of us have EARNED these accounts, when others went to other carriers…we resolved because out plans were ‘cheaper’. Truth is I became bitter with Sprint for always trying to ‘stick it to me’, so I stuck it to them! I called about everything, & I certainly had problems – I beat them at their own game, this was my test to be the ‘better’ negotiater and I achieved. However, I will get the Pre regardless, & many SERO accounts will as well. But, I have a strong feeling those that will NOT switch will be those that will actuallly GIVE BACK to WebOS, develope our new Apps (I don’t care for old Palm OS Apps!), & even most likely to USE/Purchase them as well.
If Palm fails, I will personally be saddened as I believe we have something really beautiful here. Now much improved customer service. This is specifically in regards to billing, bills are clear, taxes are low, no surprises. Also, their excellent network, cheaper plans and a fantastic phone/OS! Those that have been with Sprint for years and years will be the ones developing and testing, everybody else will be satisfied with the regular, cheaper Sprint plans AND a well developed App Store!
Sprint, do NOT stifle the energy that you have here with the Pre and WebOS. You need these broke, young and bright individuals to start things well for YOU, remember – only 6 months exclusive. You block out your core userbase & leave bitter taste at the same time. Then you fail to support the OS enough and the entire thing blows up in your face. Angry customer base (AGAIN) & half assed product! LET IT FREE AND YOU WILL COME OUT AHEAD! I know you are a business & money talks, so keep in mind the revenue you will miss from the APP STORE by cutting out hundreds of thousands of people who will CREATE these apps! Do you want to follow Apples long term iPhone community plan or make higher, temporary profits but then still slowly die out anyway?
SIGN NEW CUSTOMERS TO EVERYTHING PLANS, LET UNLIMITED DATA ACCOUNTS USE PRE!!! If you MUST upgrade SERO, upgrade it to the new SERO PLUS but leave the few ‘reasonable’ discounts. You will have everybody on the accounts you want (everything works the same) and everybody is happy with their few discounts also. Apps are abound, Pre’s are seen everywhere – everybody is happy.
PS. I’m an inventor, entreprenuer and technology enthusiast, lets make WebOS a brighter world for us to enjoy! 8) hahaha
Best to you all,
LJ – OMG this is long…
I am a long time Sprint customer and I don’t have a SERO plan.
If Sprint offered all SERO or any other legacy customer the opportunity to keep their current plan if they were willing to pay $ 400.00 for the PRE would you think this would be a reasonable compromise.
Yes you would have to pay more for the phone but in the long term you would save with your lower cost plan.
This could be a win – win. Get the Pre and Sprint get a little extra cash to help them survive.
@SMOG – Yes, I think the higher price for the phone would be reasonable. However…
Sprints operational mode of offering deals for new customers is nothing new.
When I got my sero plans, they were to lure new customers.
Existing customers had to jump through hoops to get the better plans.
I believe a watershed event happened (the iPhone) and sprint decided to play along.
They want to boost money they get from each customer and are using the instinct/pre
to both lure new customers and get existing customers off the cheaper plans.
I am a happy sprint customer with my legacy sero plan. Given the choice of cheaper plan
or wow phone (iPhone/instinct/pre), I am happy to stick with the cheaper plan.
Who knows what the future holds. Time moves on and there may be a future watershed
event in these tough economic times that causes sprint to change their thinking (better or worse).
@ LJ & SMOG and all the other well meaning, account holders!
Unfortunately, history has proven to us over and over again, that “GREED” and “REASON” do not cooperate, case and point the mortgage & banking crisis of 1929 and 2008, the same pattern,hence the saying :
“History repeats it self”!
These people @ SPRINT don’t think about “longterm relationships”, to them longterm is a rip off 2 year contract, that is why they can not keep a position for long, they come in for “the kill” like former CEO Forsee, CEO Dan Hesse made as much as or over $14,000,000 in 2008!
What for?
The value of the Company??
Just about everything they could is outsourced or sold or leased out!!
Just a couple of years ago you could not buy a share for $20, now a days you can get between 5 to 10 shares, (a couple of months ago a share was under $2,depending on when you get in !) for the same $20!!!
Before they used to call a customer a “Lifer”, that is how much they used to value and care in keeping happy longterm “relationships”,
not forced “Contracts” and “Plans”!!!
When the “Pre” fails (all eggs in one basket), it will force them to vote him off! You know why?
Because they are bleeding accounts by the millions, as the guy in “TOPGUN” said:
” Son,you are writing checks your body can not cash”!!
I could care less for the “Pre”:
1. No Microsd (good luck saving your files, when it crashes or dies!
2.Poor Camera
3.Unproven “WebOs”
4.Not backwards Compatible with “PalmOs” i.e “Garnet (meaning sc… you loyal Palm customer!
5.Keyboard Vertical versus Horizontal design
6.The slippery,smudge/scratch magnet finish, instead of rubberized
7.Forced “EverythingPlans”
However, obviously many do not mind my preferences, why would a smart CEO, in this economy mind you, put the potential of millions of dollars in additional income at risk??
Simply put miss management, lack of inventory, due to lack of funding, due to loss of millions of good solid accounts,buying Nextell,signing up poor credit non paying accounts by the millions,laying of 1000s in staff…
because of incoherent policies and greedy schemes, the pattern repeats itself,in summary the creation of “the Perfect Storm”!
The only difference, this time is that they are running out of life boats, a couple of more mistakes like these, and they are out for good, too bad for the consumers, one less choice to consider, but don’t worry life cycles tend to start anew, a brand new company will be born,
after all it is not the end for all!! lol
Thank You!
We’re waiting for the App Catalog to really see what the Pre can do with video.
Unfortunately, this starts to step into areas we cannot comment on. webOS took a lot of lessons from Palm on multimedia areas, and Palm’s cloud computing services will certainly help in this area.
F1, the Pre is actually backwards compatible with Garnet OS, via add-on (created with assistance from Palm themselves). It is similar to Apple’s Mac OS Classic mode (and more recently, XP Mode in Windows 7).
In fact, thanks to webOS not being very good for gaming (yet), Palm is actually pointing to Garnet OS backwards-compatibility as enabling first-version webOS devices to have a reasonable gaming presence.
Christopher,
I’ve followed with interest your comments on the Sprint calling/data plans that will accompany the Palm Pre offering. You describe them as “hostage plans” in that Sprint will require expensive monthly plans called “Everything Plans.” As I understand Sprint’s policy on this, a customer can activate their Pre with an Everything Data Plan starting at $70/month for 450 call minutes or a Business Essentials Plan starting at $70. Those plans with 900 call minutes come in at $90/month.
Then there is the “Simply Everything” Plan at $100/month.
Just so I’m clear, are you calling ALL the “Everything Plans” onerously expensive and likely to hurt Palm Pre sales, even the ones starting at $70/month….or were you specifically referring only to the Simply Everything plan at $100/month as onerously expensive and likely to hurt Palm Pre sales?
I’m writing about the coming Pre on my blog and want toy link to yours.
Thanks
Robert Mullins
San Jose Gadget Examiner
Robert, yes were referring to the entire set of Everything set of plans. Here’s why.
Sprint has said they do not discriminate between smart device plan pricing (Windows Mobile, earlier Palm devices, etc). While Palm’s using newer (Linux-driven) software, the data consumption and speeds are identical. The only thing new, is the added utility of Palm’s interface and accessibility.
Sprint refuses to address how the Palm Pre is any different from a high-end Windows Mobile phone. When iPhone 3G went to $30 for data pricing, AT&T explained that it was the same data pricing for other smartphones on their 3G network. Palm has informed us that there is nothing in the device that would require an Everything plan. Hence, this requirement is artificial.
Further, Sprint assured certain customers (on legacy plans) that they would continue to activate new smartphones, even though their plan was no longer offered. Sprint is clearly backtracking on that promise.
And finally, many customers are left in the cold. The hard of hearing (on the Sprint Relay Plan) and on the data-only plans (those who use the device for web, email, and messaging only)… are told they can’t get the Pre at all.
With iPhone and the T-Mobile G1, customers simply have to add a more expensive add-on, but can keep their voice plan regardless of age or configuration. Both also have options for the hard of hearing, and data-only users. Sprint and the Pre lack all of those options.
Based on all of those reasons, we think it’s more than apt to call these requirements “hostage terms.” Even if your plan could use a smartphone already (with data included), your bill could rise as much as $40 per month, just to get the Pre.
I’m one of the many with a Fair & Flexible plan (family) for $70. I’ve got the $15 add-on Power Vision pack, and my wife has an older $5 Vision add-on. That’s $90 before taxes. In order for me to get this phone, here are my options. My wife and I can both switch to an Everything Data Shared plan, $130 before taxes, $40 more than we pay now. That’s a waste for her since she has an older phone and doesn’t really use it for anything other than making calls and maybe 5-10 texts a month. I can switch to an individual Everything Data plan, and leave her on the old shared F&F plan. That would be $70 plus $5 plus another $70, or $145. That would be kind of odd to keep her alone on a shared plan. The last option would be to put me on an Everything Data plan, have my wife switch over to one of the more basic plans (Basic = $30, Talk = $40), hopefully get to keep her add-ons ($5 Vision), and that would come to $105 or $115, which is still $15 or $25 more than we pay now.
I’ve been a Sprint customer a while now. I’m really looking forward to this phone. But they’re wrong if they don’t think I’ll jump ship if AT&T adds a lower tier plan like the rumors say they are, as long as the price is good. I’ve got a feeling that the reason more people didn’t jump to AT&T to get an iPhone is because of the cost of the data plan. That’s the biggest thing keeping me a Sprint customer. If that hurdle is lowered, I’m definitely more likely to leave Sprint than I am to stay.
What I’m hoping is for AT&T to introduce a lower tier plan, and for Sprint to be pressured into following suit.
@ Chris, I had read that programs like “Document to go” and others were not going to work with WebOS, what you are reporting would indeed be a plus!
FF vs EP
@ Robert Mullins
Maybe this real example helps you:
I have the Original Fair & Flexible (FF) 700 for $50 includes:
Every $5 = buys an extra 100 minutes
5 cents per minute when overage exceeds1000 minutes (1700minutes!!)
Nights starting @ 6PM I average 670 minutes a cycle:
1.Unlimited PCS to PCS ( average 5 minutes)
2.Unlimited America Roaming (never use)
3.Unlimited Pic & Video Mail (never use)
4.Unlimited SMS & Text messaging ( average 30)
5.Unlimited Night & Weekend ( average 600-1300 minutes)
6.Unlimited EVDO Data Pack basic mobile TV (Opera mini 3)(unspecified)
7.No GPS ( I use Free Google Map)
FF gets for:
$70 = $20 more 4X $5 = 4X 100min= Base700 + 400= 1100 minutes
$90 = $40 more 8X $5 = 8X 100min= Base700 + 800= 1500 minutes
$100= $50 more 10x$5=10X 100min=Base 700 +1000=1700 minutes
No GPS
Everything Plan (EP):
1. $70 —>FF (1100 minutes) less EP (450) = 650 minutes short!!
2. $90 —>FF (1500 minutes) less EP (900) = 600 minutes short!!
In other words only after I exceed 1700 minutes, do I break even with the
$100 Everything Plan!!
For the record I have never exceeded 800 minutes in a cycle over an eleven year period!
Hope this helped you can draw your own conclusion, why one would feel taken hostage when forced to give up a Plan to get an Instinct or Pre or S30!
Thank You
Thank You
I think Sprint is targeting a certain demographic with the Pre and the Instinct selling the phone and Everything Plans as a packaged deal. More than likely they have looked at the internal data from the Instinct sales and have come to a consensus that the majority will buy the Pre with its plan requirements. Regardless of the product and/or service there will always be complaints and dislikes. The key is to aim to satisfy the majority, and in this case I think those with grandfathered plans that are unwilling to switch are in the minority.
People tend buy and spend the money on things that they “valueâ€. As it has been stated before look at the IPHONE plans, people that truly want the device don’t mind paying for it. Then there is the argument that Palm is not Apple. This is true, but why do they have to be?
I can understand that there are people out there with plans at various prices that suit their needs. Is it not enough that they still honor grandfathered plan prices? If you are out of contract where are they obligated to do so? To my knowledge the wireless industry is one of the few that do this. The rates for TV, internet, and landline service often increase regardless of what you paid when you signed up. So as long they honor grandfathered plans and give multiple handset upgrade options that don’t require a plan change how is anyone being held hostage?
@Tech3
Your writing seems like a soft P.R. corporate response, don’t be offended, see consumers value their freedom of choice above all.
1.Clearly Sprint is targeting “a certain demographic”, just observing the Ads, clarifies that the target market is non Sprint customers, the goal is to recruit them away from the competition.
Nobody has an issue with that aspect of the plan, capitalism is still alive, the issue is greed versus freedom of choice for existing Customers.
2.Earlier you used the BMW analogy, ok let us agree that out of all the automotive vendors, i.e Audi,Ford,Honda,… you opt for the BMW, now you get to pick the 1 or 3 or 5 or 7 series, or maybe the X series is more your cup of tea, but BMW says keep driving your old 3 series, you can buy parts for it, or if you like to buy any other model that is ok, except for the X series that you want!
See the X series lease/purchase requires a contract with penalty option for exclusive usage, only the Freeway can be utilized, you can not drive on the surface streets!
Just as BMW would never prohibit your choice of vehicle or road, so should also the Sprint device and road access choice be free!
Never mind that some vendors have loyalty / upgrade programs in addition to other bonuses!
3.When I first signed up with Sprint, Weekends and Holidays were free, in addition to that, first incoming minutes were also free, so that you did not have to be forced to pay for wrong number incoming calls.
So please do your due diligence before you compare favorably your industry with other telecom in this country, for example, no selected incoming call blocking option, charges on all incoming calls, no toll free calling (except for*2 *3), caller id is none existend, no collect call option, no shut off on voice mail, might as well forget about an oversees Cell standard comparison!!
People are fed up with the Industry wide abuses,mind you that the economy, is on the side of the ones who have the freedom choice,
People can’t wait for a “Cell Consumer’s bill of rights”, just like with the Banks and Credit Cards.
It is the priciple of freedom of choice that has been taken hostage by the enforcement of these plans, what is the difference between new customers and the old, you ask?
Well let us see, without the primary customers there would be no Sprint!
How is that for Customer appreciation incentive?
Hope that helped put things into perspectiv.
Thank You
Someone mentioned its all about “new customers”…. and it is.
For all of you who feel we older customers are being stingy, or unreasonable, I have to remind you of a few things:
1) Some of us have free and clear plans we got when sprint was almost nothing. We joined due to them having the most advanced cellular devices in the country (cameras, color screens, polyphonic ring tones) and PUT UP with their limited coverage, not to mention being bound to the sprint network ONLY for coverage. Many of us were accustomed to paying a bit more for vision each month, some of us had it built in our plans. ALL OF US dealt with paying a bit more when power vision hit the market
2)Some of us came to sprint because “fair and flexible” plans worked for us…. and gave us piece of mind.
3) The majority of us not on everything plans ARE NOT SERO CUSTOMERS.
We’ve all stuck with sprint for longer than the average mobile customer stays with a company, and if sprint’s new direction is as such, we have out-stayed our value.
NEW CUSTOMERS AND EVERYTHING PLAN CUSTOMERS:
Just remember, what is new becomes old. You’ll eventually call sprint foolish. Maybe because they refuse to replace your malfunctioning Palm Pre even though you pay for insurance. Maybe they’ll bill you for text or data in error, and cause you grief.
One thing is certain…… They will roll out a device that has 4G internet, or a device even more advanced than the PRE. And when you call to get it, you will be told that your “everything” plan won’t work. And you’ll remember a time when you were “favored ” by sprint, and most of you won’t want to pay more. Maybe you’ll stay and put up with whatever they put you through? Maybe you’ll go. IF YOU DECIDE TO STAY WHEN THIS DAY COMES, you’ll have more in common with those of us complaining on this forum than if you decide to leave….
Some of you need to realize the initial PRE roll out is all about Sprint getting new customers.
Yes new customers who will generate more revenue, because without new customers Sprint will be gone from the market. For legacy customers just be patient. Come early November when x-mas shopping season comes and the Sprint -PRE exclusive period is winding down something will change. I would not be surprised if the price of the PRE with no contract will be in the 400-500 range and you will be allowed to connect it to any existing Sprint plan that has unlimited data.
As a side note I just was in a T-Mobile store where when they compare plans with other companies, they do not even acknowledge that Sprint is a competitor. I have also been with vzw and att both how have customer service that is worse than Sprint.
In many ways Sprint and Palm are where Apple was not so long ago or have many of you forgotten how close Apple came to going under before Steve Jobs came back.
I am not saying drink the Sprint kool aide but if you really are a Sprint customer you should be encouraging your friends to switch to Sprint if you are happy and if the only reason you are still with Sprint is because of price. Than make sure that is in the top of any post you make.
SMOG, people said that about Instinct. People said Sprint was only limiting the Instinct to Everything Plans, in order to control demand.
Again, as I’ve said this previously in this article… ask those people how that wait is going.
@ Christopher, what do you mean by the last comment? Maybe its just me but i have no idea what it means.
Okay..I have read a lot of the comments and I am still on Sprint’s side with this one.
Sprint is not worried about those customers with the old plans, who don’t want to upgrade their plan. You guys aren’t going to leave because you can’t get the Pre. Where you going to go?? All the other service plans will cost you a whole lot more. You can’t beat the price you pay at this time. But, just for fun, lets pretend you leave, just because you can’t get the Pre. Verizon is going to rake you over the coals to get the plan you have now. You aren’t going to go with Iphone because it will cost you way more for the plan and you get less than just going with the everything or simply everything plan. So you can be upset, but in the end what are you going to do, leave and pay more through another carrier? I don’t think so.
I upgraded my plan so i can get the instinct. I had the fair and flexible plan before, but I understood that it’s just business and if i want the latest phone they are not going to allow me to keep my same cheap plan. Any carrier would do the same.
@CR
What Chris is trying to say is that Instinct was thought to go to all existing unlimited data plan after a certain time, but that never happened. Which means that the Pre will most likely not go to all existing unlimited data plans after a certain time.
Mike, I don’t think most people in this forum are going to cancel their account if they can’t get the pre. They were just voicing their opinions on sprint making decisions that affect their current customers.
At this point Sprint does NOT have any room to piss off any customers. They are already loosing too many.
Your right that sprint has the best plans in the market but a phone company doesn’t just survive on plans. It also survives on Great Customer service(Sprint Doesn’t have) and great coverage (which sprint still isn’t there).
Sprint is working on fixing these problems but they have to fix it before they can start forcing changes like the pre issue.
Also how many people switched their plans to get the instinct just like you did? I really don’t know how many did it but it wasn’t enough to help their customers from leaving by the millions.
So Mike can this move really help sprint? Has it in the past? You tell me.
Sprint will start thinking right after other companies get the pre and they are no longer the only game in town with the pre. Sprint better hope Verizon doesn’t get it too quickly because then sprint better bring on the game.
I hope sprint does well though. The more cell phone companies out there the better it is for consumers.
Sprint, please think about what you are doing, for business sake! hehe
JJ
I agree that sprint HAD bad customer service (which cost them alot of customers), but it has gotten extremely better. As far as the coverage, I never had an issue with that. I think a big issue that sprint had was the phone catalog SUCKED. Verizon was coming out with a new phone every month and it was always some snazzy cool looking phone which attracted a lot of customers from sprint. ATT obtained the Iphone exclusively which gained a TON of customers from sprint (they almost got me!)–Sprint had no real answer to the Iphone and during that time many of people were flocking to the iphone, leaving sprint — Sprint tried (and failed) to compete with the instinct but fell flat on their face, still losing customers to carriers with snazzier phone catalogs. What sprint is trying to do is lure some new customers their way with the Palm Pre–I believe they are trying to entice new people and old to get this phone. They would be crazy to offer the PRE to those with Grandfathered plans, because they know they won’t leave, the plans they have are too cheap. So to answer your question — yes this plan will help them because I believe this phone will be the closest competitor to the iphone (but i have been mistaken before – INSTINCT). Now I do believe Sprint is going to have 1 major problem that they will need to address or they will be in a world of hurt…………..Sprint has this phone exclusively for a limited time and they will most likely not have a good followup phone – so what will entice people to comeback.
@ Sprint, just remember these words:
“NOBODY LIKES TO BE TAKEN FOR GRANTED”!
A true story:
I have an m610, after 2.5 years, the camera and microsd are not working, 40minutes max talk time,… still I really enjoyed this Phone, the rubberized finish, matt black, still the thinnest Flip, 2.2inch sharp screen, first 2 meg pix camera at Sprint, video would record till power would end, great pics!
Now after 11.5 years of service, for the past 8 months (@ $55), I have moved to a place, where signal is so poor, that the phone goes into something called “off Line mode”!
I had never seen that before, good luck getting it back to the “Now Network”!! It requires multiple hard resets, maybe a dose of roaming, and about 20 minutes of your time, that is of course after you find out that your phone has been, god nows for how long in “off Line mode”!!
As of right now, nothing in the current line up, is my cup of tea, maybe the “International Willow”, if it is matt and rubberized.
By the way as I stated earlier, I could care less for the “Preâ€:
1. No Microsd, good luck saving your files, when it crashes or dies !
2.Poor Camera
3.First Generation unproven, potentialy buggy “WebOsâ€
4.Keyboard Vertical versus Horizontal design
5.The slippery,smudge/scratch magnet finish, not rubberized
and of course, don’t forget the “bonus” enforced “EverythingPlansâ€!
I have been off contract, for 16 months, a year ago they were going to give me any phone of my choice for free, except for the m800/Instinct!
2 months ago they told me, “sorry we can no longer give you those deals anymore”, i.e the Palm Pro will cost me $199, same as new accounts,
“they took away all other discounts, sorry that is the best we can do”…
So, I have a disfunctional dying phone, the worst connection over the last decade, nobody I know uses Sprint anymore, guess what,
no matter how great my vintage, modified F&F 700 plan is, with the worst reception since 1997, I have come a full cycle!
At one point I even considered buying an Omnia from VZ and have them flash it on to Sprint, but VZ increased the off contract price from $349 plus Tax, to even higher, with no gurantees.
I do have unlimited roaming, which sometimes I have to switch over to,
so that I don’t drop an important call, multiple times!
For the first time I am excited over the 3rd Gen Apple iPhone, or maybe even the 3rd Gen iTouch, it will have a rubberized back, a video camera, many fun applications,although I hate the call quality of ATT, but it looks like the network is improving, in addition to international access, it provides the option to at will, switch various devices with ease by simply swaping the card, maybe I get myself one those 3rd Gen Apple products, as a second device till the faith of Sprint is sealed.
Yes, you guessed it, at this point I feel like I am taken for granted, I get the distinct feeling that I am not a minority in this aspect.
If my service is sub par, and the device element of excitement is none existent, why would I stay ?
Because of my F&F 700 ?
Sprint,simply can not afford greedy policies,it is disrespectful and it will back fire, if Sprint stays the course,it will cause it’s demise, guranteed!
Thank You
Cycle = Circle
Sorry!
All this talk is really sad! The fact that AT&T & VZW are being brought mentioned because their plans are “add ons” for data is partly true. Their voice plans are $40 for 450 mins, $60 for 900 mins, etc. There is no special voice plans floating around like Sprint. Any old AT&T (from the days of AT&T Wireless) were almost or completely converted to new voice plans. Or they just left. Which is correct, UPGRADE! That old AT&T is DEAD!!!
Same with Alltel. Alltel is bought out and when their contracts are up, I will almost be certain, Verizon will do whatever they can to get them to upgrade. Alltel is DEAD too.
My point is when something is discontinued or dead time for upgrade. Its part of the business.
My family has Verizon and when they wanted to upgrade their phones almost 2 yrs ago. A Verzion rep told them they had to upgrade their plan to get the phones at that price. If they wanted to keep their old plan, they had to pay full retail price. My family has been with VZW for 9 years. Yes the family plans when up since since they upgraded 2 yrs ago. You know what, I thought that was fair. That should be standard policy among ALL carriers!! You want to upgrade a phone, upgrade your plan both SHOULD GO hand in hand. Or pay FULL retail price for it. That’s how it should be. I don’t believe in Grandfathered honored plans. That’s BS. And from the looks of it, neither does AT&T & VZW. Sprint needs to follow suit as those carriers. Adapt or go under.
@F1 – If you have free roaming and have vz service in your area, you could set
the phone on “roam only” and at least be up to receive calls.
(the problem comes if you use more than half of your monthly minutes roaming)
@Cell Dude “Adapt or go under”???
Ok, so next “Price fixing”, would be ok too?
Just because others jump off the cliff wih their policies, all should follow?
Let us say you are a Vendor selling two products, the device and service plans.2 seperate products,as long as customers are using you (the same vendor), you should be happy, give people the freedom of choice, forcing anybody into anything will sooner or later backfire!
Being a contrarian to those policies, will bring people to you, at will and by choice, would that not be a healthier policy, creating happier customers for the long run? More happy accounts, translates to more $$$!
Besides once, “device portability” will follow “number portability”, the rules of the game will change, and you will see who is going to be left standing, holding an empty bag.
Greed, is what brought Wallstreet down, case and point 1929-1932, September 2008-20??
Thank You!
@flower_power
Thank you flower_power for your advice, that is exactly what I do when I am making important calls,keeping it at a minimum, but I have to start doing it for incoming calls, because, I am told that it “rings forever”, or “does not ring at all”, missing important calls, sometimes it takes several hours for me to get a VM/Text message. Taking it off “Auto” helped because before it used to switch in an out of the 2 Networks, VZ roaming is much clearer, but far from perfect.
Tier2 has agreed, that it could be because of closeness to a major banking hub, and potential system overload in the area,I might have to move again!
Thank You
@F1,
Okay so the fact that VZW & AT&T have not seen negative net adds speaks that the current policy or business model works. Until that fails or proves that it does not, then I can see your point. They both have been adding new customers speaks for itself. Both of these companies have customers who are very satisfied with their policies or they would have opted out. Both have very low churn rate.
You say its greed, I say its business. Companies raise their prices for whatever reason. You want to compare Wallstreet to the wireless industry, then to me its apples to oranges. I don’t see how if they offered these devices to you at your SERO plan that it equals $$$$. Where is the revenue going to come from? Oh thats right new subs. But that can only go so far as long as you have unrealistic price plans on Sprint. You can only hope for new subs to keep Sprint afloat, barely hanging on due to piss poor management by Ex CEO Forsee!
Standing with an empy bag? Sorry fail to see your point. If all you need to look at is the iPhone and VZW smartphone plans. All don’t seem to have a problem paying those prices. Owning certain devices to go along with certain plans will not change. Sorry but that is reality. So far the economy has not hit the 2 big carriers. The wireless industry is changing and plans plan restrictions on certain devices is here to stay. It’s a part of owning that device they market. You like the device but not the plan, you don’t have to get it. Choose another one. If you really want it, then get the plan that goes with it.
@Cell Dude
A couple of points:
1. I do not have a SERO plan, I have Fair & Flexible 700, I don’t care for the Pre, I am saying it is the principle of freedom of choice that is at stake.Yesterday it was the “Instinct”, today it is the “Pre”, and next it is….!
2.I agree 100% on Forsee, but that was the past, sadly D.H. is not doing too good either. Greed is universal and very unforgiving, Wallstreet is to jours problem, hence my example of what is to come, there is good business and bad business practices, you decide.
3. ATT, “focuses on the hardware”, they are milking that cash cow, hence it will have its 3rd exclusive iPhone with its own following, coming from the 2 CDMA Carriers, mostly from Sprint and some Tmobile.
4. VZ, “focuses on service”, runs a tight ship and is selling better service then ATT, a vastly improved selection of various hardware,i.e. Storm, Omnia, the Hub…versus in the past, and add to that very smart strategic takeovers such as ALLTEL,… unlike the Sprint and Nextell nightmare,they are serious about maintaining #1 status, also low turnover, mostly financialy well to do customers who do not care so much about temporary cheaper or “value” plans.
5. Soon all 4 majors will have versions of “Everything Plans”, at that point the real horse race will start, who can “dump” more for less and faster, hence solidifying their positions, who will win? The ones with the deepest pocket, and the market will pick its choice of winners!
6.Sprint simply can not afford, alienating millions of none “Everything PLan” holders, Sprint is in poor finacial shape comparatively speaking, they have a small window to correct their policy, before the flood gates open for millions of the so called lower revenue accounts to leave, remember some money is always better then no money!
Thank You!
@celldude
What your saying is right. Companies have change their policies and you have to either accept them or leave.
But your missing the point. Sprint is not forcing everyone to switch to an everything plan. Just the people that want the pre. This is what everyone is talking about.
It is nothing compared to what att or verizon did.
The reason your family had to change is because verizon switched to a different plans overall. Most of their new phones require you to have the nationwide plans if you haven’t switched already.
What sprint is doing is saying that different power vision plans work with different phones. They are saying that the internet is different on the pre than any other phone. That is what is wrong with this change that they are forcing.
The reason people are still getting the iPhone even with the need for their special overpriced phone is because it is an APPLE phone and apple is a great company. So lets hope that sprint is a hit with the pre or make it available to anyone because this will help them keep the customers they currently have and get more new customers.
So celldude, do a little more research before you start comparing cell phone companies and stating incorrect information.
Great point f1. That is the whole point here. Companies alienating customers. That is what sprint is going to do and they can’t afford to do that. If sprint made the pre available to anyone, especially in the first six months before everyone else gets the pre, they will gain so many customers and have a chance to a competition to verizon again.
It is all about keeping current customers happy and gaining new ones. Again and I don’t know how many more times we have to say this, Sprint has to keep current customers happy or they will keep loosing customers by the hundreds.
But I guess celldude and all the other people who agree with price hikes and forced changes are right and this is what everyone needs in this economy. Higher prices and bad customer service. wooohoo.
Iphone requires a ridiculous costly plan.
Verizon requires a $30 data plan on any smartphone.
Why can’t Sprint make a “demand”, if you can even call it that.
The everything plan is the fairest plan out there.
P.S. I didn’t read the whole comments thread, I apologize for possibly regurgitating.
To all the Pre fans!!
http://www.engadget.com/2009/05/24/sprints-pre-business-launch-guide-leaked-in-its-entirety/#comments
Thank You
@JJ
The part about my family, yes they did have nationwide plans. They were told they still had to upgrade. I was fine with that. I could have been a pain and complained but why? They went with the current price plan with the same minutes as the old. Yes it was expensive but hey that’s what was current. That was just an example of what I personally believe. Sorry I always upgrade to current plans. As I stated I am not a fan of grandfathered plans. Never have, never will. We all have choices and I am not loyal to any cell phone carrier.
If you are stating that I did not do my research on the pre and how it uses the internet different? Yes maybe I didn’t research that. But my point is each company has a right to charge what they want and what price plan goes with that phone. You want to call Apple phone overpriced fine. I don’t see a problem with their phone price or data plan pricing either. You want that phone, that’s the price you have to pay to own it. Like you said, Apple is a great company.
My whole point is all I kept reading here is how some want to pre but don’t want to give up their plans.
@F1
Is D.H. doing a good job? It’s been nothing to write home about. I do think whatever CEO is in charge, they have their work cut out for them.
Sorry but I am in the minority here in this thread that I don’t see a problem with exclusive price plans for certain devices. To me it’s part of that carriers marketing, attraction to that company.
I do agree with your view on AT&T and VZW. Both descriptions seem to be what I think as well. Off topic for second, personally I don’t think Apple is going anywhere. I think AT&T will give Apple whatever they ask to keep them exclusive. Apple has the edge and sales numbers to get what they want.
I do give VZW credit on the point that yes they maybe expensive but you know where your money is going. They spend a large amount of money constantly maintaining their network. And I do agree, THEY WANT THE #1 slot in the US.
At the end, let this phone get released. Hopefully Sprint will do well for this phone.
@ tiggr
Events in the Middle East, Darfur or today’s North Korean estimated Hiroshima size Nuclear Bomb underground test, Madoff, Djingis Khan, Ivan the terrible, Stalin, Hitler could make one “question faith in humanity”, greed is one of the original sins, some confuse it with ambition, others say some level of greed is needed….but I don’t think any event, could ever be strong enough to eradicate “Hope” and by default “lose faith in humanity”, it is wrong to surrender to wrong & evil, because every step back for good, is the step forward evil.
No matter where you are, there is always an example of “faith in humanity”, just look at the unconditional love of a mother for a child, a teacher’s sacrifice and care for the students, on this day the observance of memorial day of counless sacrifices of men and women and their families. The freedom of expression we have, in the U.S alone is hope for so many nations in the world, in short don’t give up!
Thank You!