Over the past couple of days, users have noticed that the Palm Pre has begun a systematic process of updating all Pre devices to webOS 1.0.2. Palm claims that this is necessary, due to the tight integration between webOS and Palm’s cloud computing servers. However, such moves may put Palm into legal trouble… or worse.
Palm’s Pre will automatically update itself, even if you reject an update, seven days after it was detected. The device must have at least 30% battery power, and either an EV-DO signal, or a Wi-Fi signal present.
The nightmare scenario is, of course, a user wanting to call 911, finding that the (forced) update somehow has failed. The Palm Pre can’t call 911 as a bricked phone, and no firmware update is 100% successful. Users have already encountered bricked Pre units, resulting in the release of the Pre restoration kit. That kit, in turn, has unleashed a homebrew scene already… enabling users to hack their phones to run standard Linux software.
The FCC has clear protocols on a device’s ability to dial 911, at all times… unless the consumer chooses to bypass the ability (such as, by explicitly enabling a device to update itself). We presume, though cannot confirm at this time, that the FCC was not aware of the Palm Pre’s forced software update ability.
A wrongful death lawsuit can bring a company to its knees. Palm is opening itself up to such harm, should someone ever be found injured, harmed, or dead, with a bricked Pre in their hands. While the chances of that happening are rare, it only takes one. An even more fearful scenario, is a malformed update bricking many Pre units at once, though this is less likely due to the delay that the Pre makes before forcing an update on consumers.
At this time, we would like to give Palm an opportunity to respond, but we are prepared to approach the FCC with this matter, including arming Pre owners with the tools to easily file an FCC complaint.
Verizon Wireless late last year stopped all forced FOTA updates on their devices, after PhoneNews.com publicly detailed the dangers, risks, and safety hazards of forced firmware updates. Microsoft also faced legal settlements after triggering automatic, forced updates on the original Xbox console. The Xbox 360 now does allow users to opt-out of pushed updates.
I don’t agree with forced updates either, 1st they followed them with the data cap, then the UI and now forced updates. Sprint is mimicing the wrong vzw tendencies
amazing how self centered hackers are. Businesses update software to reduce customer complaints and improve functionality. I’d say that what your arguement supports is a greater risk the phone won’t work because its running software with known bugs. Unlike a PC or MAC, a phone is a device with a standard configuration… unless a user hacks the OS and tampers with the software. Your 911 arguement is such BS its not worthy of discussion… its a red herring smoke screen for your hacker support.
Illegal!???!? I think you are making a big stretch. This is pretty shoddy journalism IMO. I hate forced updates as much as the next person, but illegal? The examples you give don’t really qualify either. Even on landlines, the phone company can manipulate equipment on their network (even attached to your house) without your permission or consent. Sometimes they even may take down your phone service (including 911) for a period of time. I’d like to see what “law” you are claim they are breaking by updating the network or a device connecting to it. In fact, by your theory, if an infrastructure change was required in order to deliver 911 calls, they’d be in violation if they didn’t update it. I’m no expert, but this smells like junk journalism.
I have to agree with you Bob.
Chris didnt bother to state that Palm gives you 3 chances to delay the update and only start when the phone is idle and charging.
I would have hoped people would have read the Verizon forced update articles… so that we wouldn’t have to rehash all the safety and legal concerns.
But if you want to know more about the risks, safety hazards, and FCC PSAP protocol, that’s why the Verizon Forced FOTA articles are linked above. Read them if you doubt us on where we stand.
A certain website has TOO much time on their hands. I’m sure PALM as well as Sprint’s legal departments are well versed to manage what is illegal and legal. This is silly.
On the Instinct, I recall it saying specifically that 911 would not be available during updating, so Sprint is aware of the concern.
Uh, Mobile, did you not read the last sentence of the article? Both Verizon and Microsoft screwed up and got nailed for pulling the same crud.
Are you saying they don’t have lawyers?
I think christopher is doing a wonderful service.
I don’t care for forced updates. It’s a pig in a poke (you don’t know what your getting). There is nothing wrong with not taking the latest software build. To paraphrase some commercial in my area “It’s your phone, update it when you want”.
It seems prudent to me to wait for an update to play out and find what issues it may have.
If an update has an issue that bothers me, then I would prefer to keep the old software.
I’d look further into the details of any contractual agreement. Perhaps a mute point at this stage and one learned through the prior experiences of other carriers.
I figured i would help Chris out and put some facts in his “news”
Essentially, the Pre checks daily for updates and will download the latest updates automatically in the background. Once the update has been pulled down, it will prompt you to install. You can push the installation off if you desire, but within seven days your Pre will forcibly install the update, giving you just a ten-minute warning. Every time you charge the Pre after downloading and not installing an update it will attempt to install the update, giving you a ten minute countdown you can stop. But you can only stop the timer three times; the fourth time you start charging, the Pre will give you a ten minute ultimatum and there’s no stopping it.
From PreCentral.net
Its nothing like the Verizon or Microsoft case at all Chris..
Please stop making “news” out of nothing
Are you mad that you dont have a Pre?
@ Bob, dave and anyone who just say stuff without doing any research. Any type of forced updates is Illegal as it has been proven before with the verizon case. This is just like verizon. If your phone is updating you might be able to make 911 calls, but what if your on a call or need to call 911 and there is an error with the update and your phone freezes, bricks or restarts what happens then? Your screwed because now you lost connection with 911. I understand if your on a regular call and time doesn’t matter but when you call 911 it usually is because its an emergency.
Or what if you use your phone for important business meetings and your in the middle of a conference call that is time important? What then?
All of you that didn’t read the verizon article or haven’t done any research go on and do it and when you have something important that makes sense then come back and post it.
As for you afdsfasd, what are you talking about not make news out of nothing. Christopher is making news out of information from the cell phone industry. If you don’t agree with it then just put your comment but don’t try to force your thoughts on anyone. And I’m pretty sure chris can get any phone he wants so don’t be a little kid with these idiot comments.
Great Article Chris. Keep up the good work and the informative side of the cell phone industry.
Eh, I don’t know.. so you pass on doing the update for 7 days because well, you can’t quite find the time to do the update and then you find yourself in a 911 emergency and can’t use your phone? Seems like it is your fault because for the past 168 hours you couldn’t find 15 minutes to let your phone do what it needs to do.
Oh and btw, we all agreed to the TOCs of using the phone, which mandatory updates were part of. Seems like a winning lawsuit is unlikely.
Someone, what if someone is out of town, and doesn’t want to risk their phone being bricked by an update… on an important business trip? TOS or not, the safety/legal matters are compounded by the reliability/stability concerns of corporate users.
JJOr what if you use your phone for important business meetings and your in the middle of a conference call that is time important? What then?
All of you that didn’t read the verizon article or haven’t done any research go on and do it and when you have something important that makes sense then come back and post it.
Did you even really read what Palm not Chris posted go over and read what Palm the company said.
You have 4 attempts when you are charging you phone to do the update
When Chris is the only person that puts this kinds of news up it makes sprintpcsinfo.com look worse and worse..
I think Chris should be liable for what he writes, posting something just to get people going with out any facts and not post the entire truth is not a good thing at all.
Chris
Someone, what if someone is out of town, and doesn’t want to risk their phone being bricked by an update… on an important business trip? TOS or not, the safety/legal matters are compounded by the reliability/stability concerns of corporate users.
What if : What if my phone doesn’t work since i don’t have the proper updates, what if my phone cant find the best signal due to not having the proper update WHAT IF Chris
Bob, you’re obviously anti-PhoneNews.com, so I’ll address your comments separate from your baseless attacks and claims. We are starting a dialogue with Palm, not accusing them of intentionally violating FCC protocol. Please stop with the pitchforking… it only makes you look bad.
If webOS is out of sync with the cloud server, the only things you would lose access to is Synergy and other sync-based features. The device doesn’t stop working. This is no different than when you dismiss an Xbox 360 update… you can keep playing games, you just can’t use Xbox Live features until you chose to update.
Finally, we have no problem with Palm auto-downloading the update for users. Users should simply be able to chose when they want to install it (or, if they want to install it) at a time that is safe for them to do so. Thus, your “low signal” argument doesn’t even factor in to this discussion.
@bob, It doesn’t matter if its 4 times or 100. The fact of the matter is that they force the update and sooner or later you can’t say no to the update, it forces is it on you and if the update is being forced on you when you really need the phone and something goes wrong with update your screwed. The point of this article is to show that there is a “POSSIBILITY” that your phone can be damaged permanently or long enough to cause you either major problems or possible harm.
By the way I did read Palms notes on this. Their explanation on their update method still mentions you being forced to update sooner or later wether you want it or not.
@Bob
The chance of your phone not working due to updates is slim to none. Most phones still work whether there is an update or not. The point AGAIN is the way that the update is being pushed. Most people usually want to back up their info or want to be somewhere they can get another phone if the update doesn’t work and when the update is being forced you don’t have those options in some cases. That is all this article is trying to point out.
I guess you guys don’t see that verizon stopped their force updates for a reason. “But I guess this isn’t the same situation. “
good job phone news. i remember when my grandma had a severe heart attack and was hospitalized there were several weeks where too much was going on to update a phone. if my phone was so broke that it terribly needed a software update the software maker would have one less user. besides the bb storm unstable oses are NEVER released. updates fix bugs normally not related to phone use and add features not related to phone use. when a loved one is in critical or your on a business trip the most important thing is making calls. if the software on your phone cant make calls it wouldnt be on your phone therefore any update is not necessary. this practice is illegal period. and its stupid i live in cali and if the wrong scammer or lawyer gets wind of this palm will get sued until they change.